I know I just posted, but I've got a week's worth of thoughts to get through :)
What my title is referring to is the (in my opinion) surprising number of people who are surprised that accused terrorists were found in our own backyard with plans to attack Toronto/Southern Ontario. Should we really be surprised about this? I know there is a certain shock value to a story like this and there's no question that it shook me a little bit, but that wasn't out of surprise, it was out of a sense of realism. The threat of a terrorist attack on Canada has been, in my mind, a real possibility since September 12, 2001. Why did people think we were immune here in Canada?
This is the same Canada that was part of the coalition that brought down the Taliban in Afghanistan. The same Canada that vocalized the denouncing of terrorism worldwide along with everyone else. This is the same Canada that's now leading the fight in Afghanistan, trying to restore peace by chasing remnants of terrorist cells out of caves and tunnels. Tell me again why we're any different than anyone else?
For whatever reason, people thought that terrorist attacks were only a problem for the U.S. Tell that to the citizens of Bali, Madrid, and London. Sure we didn't join the war in Iraq, but that didn't stop attacks in Indonesia did it? (And I know that they were targeted because Bali is a tourist destination, but that doesn't change the fact that locals were killed as well).
And now we're hearing calls that we need to "toughen our stance on terrorism", and how "we're now a target". Now a target? The fact that these 17 people have been arrested should prove that we have been a target for quite a while. People are more concerned about their own security now than before, shouldn't we feel safer now that these alleged terrorists are in custody? Albeit, we're only incrementally safer since for every one of these cells we find I'm sure there are 2 more to take their place. That said, I think we need to commend law enforcement officials for doing a great job in apprehending these alleged terrorists. These are the people responsible for our safety, and I feel good knowing that they're working at this problem.
The thing that concerns me the most about this whole thing is that many of the accused are homegrown Canadians. I know that being born here doesn't stop someone from adopting another ideology, but I'd always hoped (against my better judgement) that thoughts like that wouldn't be passed down through generations or spread among our own citizens.
Oh, and just as a note to end on, would someone take these idiots who are vandalizing mosques and throw them in jail too? It's not the religion of Islam that teaches hatred, it's a certain ideology that some people adopt. Timothy McVeigh was raised in a Catholic household, so does that mean all Catholics were responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing? Of course not. So why is it any different in this case?
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In the risk that I'll open a can of worms here...which, to those reading this, this is NOT my intent. On Sara's blog, some time ago, I mentioned a terrorist attack on Canada. I was basically laughed at and pooh poohed. The point I was trying to make then, is exactly the point you make here, James. Nobody is safe while we sit back and say, "Gee, sorry bout your luck, sucks to be you, glad it wasn't me."
These people that are planning this have been doing so for many years probably. Who knows where the next bomb will go off? We need to stick together to find a peaceful solution, however, there are those that will simply not allow us to live in peace. It is their way and not other way. Unfortunately, for them, this is not a compromise. Live and Let Live is much better, in my book.
It may be a bleak viewpoint, but to be quite frank I don't know that we can stop them. We can do everything it takes to keep ourselves as safe as possible, but I don't forsee in my lifetime ever being completely safe.
And I don't think anyone has ever advocated that we "sit back" and do nothing. It's simply the methods that tend to create conflict.
You're right, we can never be 100% safe. Canada and U.S. has had such an open door policy that it's a shame that we will have to change this. It's a crying shame that we have to live differently then what we do. And it's a damn crying shame, that after literally, thousands and thousands of years of warring that mankind has engaged in, it's amazing that we have evolved very much.
Yeah, I read that the other day. Crazy stuff.
That's why I kinda disappointed when the "baby eating" (as Sara would say) Stephen Harper got elected: he's much more pro-war than the liberals were.
I still need to watch the movie "Syrianna". Apparently it gives you a real vivid idea of the root causes of terrorism in the world.
oops...left out a word...we HAVEN'T evolved very much
I'm glad I'm not the only one that was bothered by the showing of a dead corpse on TV. It does give you an idea of how the U.S. gov't is trusted on the world stage though. It's like they know that people are going to doubt them, so they may as well just show the dead body. It was the same with Hussein's sons.
It's also a very strange standard where dead bodies are openly shown on TV with no furor, but Janet Jackson's nipple causes an uproar.
As far as beheading Harper, I don't think it has anything to do with the current government, I think if the Liberals had been re-elected it would have been the same thing.
I think the most astute thing you said in your post was this:
"We just have more money and bigger guns over here in the west, and that doesn't make us right.. no more right than if the Taliban or Saddam Hussein had come over here to free the people of the horrible reign of George W. Bush or Stephen Harper"
I do wonder about being able to stop terrorism. There are people who are raised to hate the western "way of life"; and I'm sure there are people in the U.S. who now have a blanket hate of Muslims. How do you undo that much hatred? Look at Israel and Palestine. These are two groups whose hatred of each other is inbred. That's the way that this conflict is heading as well.
And it's fine to say that "we shouldn't use violence", except what other choice do we have at this stage? I know that there's the arguement that "we shouldn't have gone over in the first place", but unless you have a time machine that fails to solve the problem. Troops are in Afghanistan and they are in Iraq, and that's not going to change for a few years. We can't very well just take off leaving them to clean up our mess. And if we have to stay then people on both sides are going to get killed, that's just the way it is.
I wish that people in general were smart enough and informed enough to truly see what is going on, because then we may acutally be able to do something about it. But at the very least we have to realize that knee-jerk reactions of violence and the glorification of murder are not getting us anywhere.
NOTE: I really am an optimistic guy, but this subject matter doesn't give me a ton of reason for optimism. This is why people get lost in worlds like The Sims and Second Life, so they don't have to think about these real-world problems. And as a side note, I'm in the process of re-creating The Simpsons house in The Sims 2, it's quite entertaining :)
I'm going to tread "very, very" carefully here.
Mankind has not changed very much since the beginning of the time when history was starting to be written down. The only thing that has changed are the weapons of war.
Does this mean we can't change because it's what we are? I would like to say "NO". HOWEVER, it's going to take a lot of teaching of tolerance, patience.
Then again, just because "WE" want peace, will we be allowed to live that way? Again, I think not. Why? Because...and it's not only the asshole redneck warmongering governments that get elected. Somebody, somewhere wants to be king, emperor, big turd in the toilet bowl.
The unfortunate events that led up to Bush being president was probably based on the fear that his opponent wasn't up to the job. Would he be elected today? No, his term runs out 12/31/08. Hopefully, he's ruined any chance of his brother, Jeb, getting in.
And, on THAT note, say what you will about Bush (ok ok, I'm not that wild about him either), he definately isn't the worse president we ever had and neither will he be the last inept one either.
Will peace be in our lifetime? I seriously think not. It's not just the Israeli's and the Palestinians, or the Irish Catholics and Protestants. Neither is it just one ethnic group disliking another ethnic group. Until we get it together that we are all human, no better, no worse then anybody else. No religious, color, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, etc and so forth, is better. We all share this world. Maybe that is what we all need to teach each other.
Elaine... I'm curious... (having done a few courses in US history and US politics)...
Who in the world do you think is worse than Bush and why? I can't come up with anyone.
I do agree you'll likely have more inept ones, since the rush to president seems to be based on money rather than aptitude and ability... which is pretty troubling.
I think in order to change this pattern of escalation of conflict in the world we need to completely change the way that we think... all of us.
Until we stop focusing on the "They hate us" "We hate them" and start asking the deeper questions like "What have we done wrong and how can we make amends to them?" Because the western world is at least 70% of the reason the middle east, Africa, South and Central America, and Asia are so massively screwed up. This is our fault... we broke it and we need to take responsibility for our actions, and react with introspection and forethought instead of knee jerk violence and cries of "I don't know what we can do other than shoot people"
Just like crime, and every other problem in the world really, we need to try and address things at their root.
And we need to look at history...
and unfortunately part of this problem seems to be trying to educate a superpower who just doesn't want to be educated...
the US needs to learn from Britain's mistakes way back in the day... cause frankly they're repeating a modern day pattern of imperialism right now and it didn't get the UK anywhere and it won't get us anywhere now.
And in reality, the US didn't fully cause this problem, but if they want to step up and be big man they need to display the wisdom, the tolerance, the good will, the forethought and the patience that's required for a can of worms like this. Their president needs to exemplify that, otherwise I'd damn well burn the flag too when they blew up my family home while smoking out terrorists or hunting for weapons of mass destruction.
James, the most astute thing YOU said was:
It's also a very strange standard where dead bodies are openly shown on TV with no furor, but Janet Jackson's nipple causes an uproar.
Until we realize that we have our priorities all screwed up and start thinking big picture we're gonna go in circles.
If it was only so simple. But it's not.
Just to clarify Elaine...
I don't think my proposed solution to the problem is simple at all...
People don't change their way of thinking easily, and this is a problem that will probably take generations to overcome, just like its taken generations to escalate.
But, until we start trying it, we'll never know what good could be accomplished. And frankly, the short term fixes aren't working, so why not giver a shot?
I am all for giving it a shot. The problem is, and this is what we found out in the Cold War with the USSR, who's going to trust whom to lay down their guns first? AND, as long as MY loved one was killed by the rotten, no good....blah blah blah, I'm going to kill them all. THAT is the mentality. NOTE: I'm not referring to ME in this scenario.
The Sunnis and the Shiites hate each other. They want control. They're obviously willing to kill for it. This is just a small example of the problems we face. What WE want is not necessarily what EVERYBODY wants. That is why I said, "if it were all that simple"
Your idea of peace is not a bad one, Sara. I would like to live in that world. But people have been hating and killing each other from the beginning of time, when man first stood upright. I, personaly, think it is stupid to hate another person, based on their color, or religion, or sex, or sexual orientation, their ethnicity, their 'whatever' that makes them different from me. To hate is such a strong emotion. Unfortunately, many people, worldwide, hate.
So how do we teach a generation of kids to grow up and not do what past generations have done? I don't know. We can't even get them to stop picking on each other in schools.
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